Discussion:
Query: Japanese-style octopus preparation.
(too old to reply)
mirror
2010-06-10 22:28:22 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

How long should I boil octopus to get it like when I buy it at a
sushi restaurant or Japanese supermarket (Mitsuwa, for example)?
What should such a cooked octopus look like to tell me to pull it
from the water? Should I then dunk it in iced water to halt the
cooking?

I do not want this three-hour European style.

Thank you!


Paul
Nick Cramer
2010-06-10 23:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by mirror
Hello,
How long should I boil octopus to get it like when I buy it at a
sushi restaurant or Japanese supermarket (Mitsuwa, for example)?
What should such a cooked octopus look like to tell me to pull it
from the water? Should I then dunk it in iced water to halt the
cooking?
I do not want this three-hour European style.
Hi, Paul. If you can find "Japanese Cooking, A Simple Art," by Shizuo
Tsuji, he describes how to make Vinegared Octopus (Sudako). Very well
illustrated. Also, how to make Steam-simmered Octopus (Tako yawaraka-ni).
Emi Kazuko also describes, perhaps what you are looking for, in her book,
"The Book of Japanese Cooking", in the recipe "Sashimi with Wasabi sauce".
HTH
--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
mirror
2010-06-11 06:16:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Cramer
Hi, Paul. If you can find "Japanese Cooking, A Simple Art," by Shizuo
Tsuji, he describes how to make Vinegared Octopus (Sudako). Very well
illustrated. Also, how to make Steam-simmered Octopus (Tako yawaraka-ni).
Emi Kazuko also describes, perhaps what you are looking for, in her book,
"The Book of Japanese Cooking", in the recipe "Sashimi with Wasabi sauce".
HTH
Thank you!
parrotheada1a
2010-06-13 23:14:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by mirror
Hello,
How long should I boil octopus to get it like when I buy it at a
sushi restaurant or Japanese supermarket (Mitsuwa, for example)?
What should such a cooked octopus look like to tell me to pull it
from the water? Should I then dunk it in iced water to halt the
cooking?
I do not want this three-hour European style.
Thank you!
Paul
There are two schools of method on this that I've found cooking them.
First is cook it fast and cool it slow, the second is to do a long
simmer and cool it quick like the euro style. Truth be told, the
octopus tastes about the same coming out of the pot. Do as you please,
but there are no shortcuts to cooking it and having it come out
reasonably tender. Thing is, octopus is a kinda tough meat, tougher
than lobster or abalone. It's very dense once it's cooked. One other
tidbit. Octopus is highly perishable, even cooked and under
refrigeration. Shelf life that I've had is only about a week thawed
out. Most of the time what I do is cook one up, cut the tentacles
apart and ziploc bag them individually. I add enough water to cover
the piece, and freeze the whole bag. Adding water prevents freezer
burn.
A couple things about it.... unless you can get it locally, 9 times
out of 10 it will come frozen anyway. Another is that about sizing and
weight. Octopus has a lot of water in it, and a lot of gelatinous
material where the tentacles join together. When you drop the octopus
into the boiling water, the water comes out and you lose size and
weight. Something that weighs say... 5 pounds at the market will be 2
pounds or less fully cooked. A 1 inch wide tentacle will shrink down
by half at least. That being said, it's no wonder that cooked octopus
in a market or restaurant is fairly expensive. I've seen cooked big
tentacle pieces going for 18-20 bucks a pound frozen at Hmart in
Burlington MA , and those are mebbe 2 inches straight across.
mirror
2010-06-13 23:45:27 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:14:31 -0700 (PDT), parrotheada1a
Post by parrotheada1a
Thing is, octopus is a kinda tough meat, tougher
than lobster or abalone. It's very dense once it's cooked.
I like that texture. I like mirugai.

Thank you very much!


Paul
Nick Cramer
2010-06-14 01:27:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by mirror
Post by parrotheada1a
Thing is, octopus is a kinda tough meat, tougher
than lobster or abalone. It's very dense once it's cooked.
I like that texture. I like mirugai.
Thank you very much!
I like awabi, too.
--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
James Silverton
2010-06-14 12:17:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Cramer
Post by mirror
Post by parrotheada1a
Thing is, octopus is a kinda tough meat, tougher
than lobster or abalone. It's very dense once it's cooked.
I like that texture. I like mirugai.
Thank you very much!
I like awabi, too.
I've had octopus in two ways in sushi places. One is sliced thin and
chewy ,nigiri style and the other involves stewed baby octopus. The
latter is not particularly tough and I like them both!
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Nick Cramer
2010-06-14 21:55:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
Post by Nick Cramer
Post by mirror
Post by parrotheada1a
Thing is, octopus is a kinda tough meat, tougher
than lobster or abalone. It's very dense once it's cooked.
I like that texture. I like mirugai.
Thank you very much!
I like awabi, too.
I've had octopus in two ways in sushi places. One is sliced thin and
chewy ,nigiri style and the other involves stewed baby octopus. The
latter is not particularly tough and I like them both!
Stewed baby octopus sounds good. They eat a lot of octopus in Sicily, but I
don't have any recipes. ;-(
--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
Ken Blake
2010-06-15 04:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Cramer
Post by James Silverton
I've had octopus in two ways in sushi places. One is sliced thin and
chewy ,nigiri style and the other involves stewed baby octopus. The
latter is not particularly tough and I like them both!
Stewed baby octopus sounds good. They eat a lot of octopus in Sicily, but I
don't have any recipes. ;-(
The stewed small octopus (I think it's a small kind, not really baby
octopus) is very common in lots of places in Italy. They are called
"moscardini."

Interestingly, once in a restaurant in Siena, I was given a menu in
English. It had dormice on the menu. I had no idea what it was, and
had to get an look at the Italian menu to find out that they were
moscardini. It turns out that the genus of the dormouse is
muscardinus, and that's presumably how they made that error.

I ordered them and liked them very much. But I like all kinds and
preparations of octopus. Octopus is my favorite kind of meat.
--
Ken Blake
Nick Cramer
2010-06-15 04:53:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Nick Cramer
Post by James Silverton
I've had octopus in two ways in sushi places. One is sliced thin and
chewy ,nigiri style and the other involves stewed baby octopus. The
latter is not particularly tough and I like them both!
Stewed baby octopus sounds good. They eat a lot of octopus in Sicily,
but I don't have any recipes. ;-(
The stewed small octopus (I think it's a small kind, not really baby
octopus) is very common in lots of places in Italy. They are called
"moscardini."
Interestingly, once in a restaurant in Siena, I was given a menu in
English. It had dormice on the menu. I had no idea what it was, and
had to get an look at the Italian menu to find out that they were
moscardini. It turns out that the genus of the dormouse is
muscardinus, and that's presumably how they made that error.
I ordered them and liked them very much. But I like all kinds and
preparations of octopus. Octopus is my favorite kind of meat.
I have two recipes, neither of which I have, as yet, made. Pulpo a la
Gallega is in English. Octopus stew, "Polpicini murati" or "Polpi in
purgatorio (I pulepe 'npregatorie)" is in Italian. I still have to
translate the latter, but I think that's the one I'll make. They're off
topic here, but I'll email them to you, if you want. Also, an excellent
restaurant in San Remo and another in Ultima Ligura.

My comment about abalone, which I've had, was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
Ken Blake
2010-06-15 20:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Cramer
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Nick Cramer
Post by James Silverton
I've had octopus in two ways in sushi places. One is sliced thin and
chewy ,nigiri style and the other involves stewed baby octopus. The
latter is not particularly tough and I like them both!
Stewed baby octopus sounds good. They eat a lot of octopus in Sicily,
but I don't have any recipes. ;-(
The stewed small octopus (I think it's a small kind, not really baby
octopus) is very common in lots of places in Italy. They are called
"moscardini."
Interestingly, once in a restaurant in Siena, I was given a menu in
English. It had dormice on the menu. I had no idea what it was, and
had to get an look at the Italian menu to find out that they were
moscardini. It turns out that the genus of the dormouse is
muscardinus, and that's presumably how they made that error.
I ordered them and liked them very much. But I like all kinds and
preparations of octopus. Octopus is my favorite kind of meat.
I have two recipes, neither of which I have, as yet, made. Pulpo a la
Gallega is in English. Octopus stew, "Polpicini murati" or "Polpi in
purgatorio (I pulepe 'npregatorie)" is in Italian. I still have to
translate the latter, but I think that's the one I'll make. They're off
topic here, but I'll email them to you, if you want.
Thanks, but since it's not easy for me to find octopus for cooking
here in Tucson, I'll pass.
Post by Nick Cramer
Also, an excellent
restaurant in San Remo and another in Ultima Ligura.
My comment about abalone, which I've had, was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
--
Ken Blake
James Silverton
2010-06-15 12:14:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Nick Cramer
Post by James Silverton
I've had octopus in two ways in sushi places. One is sliced
thin and chewy ,nigiri style and the other involves stewed
baby octopus. The latter is not particularly tough and I
like them both!
Stewed baby octopus sounds good. They eat a lot of octopus in
Sicily, but I don't have any recipes. ;-(
The stewed small octopus (I think it's a small kind, not
really baby octopus) is very common in lots of places in
Italy. They are called "moscardini."
Interestingly, once in a restaurant in Siena, I was given a
menu in English. It had dormice on the menu. I had no idea
what it was, and had to get an look at the Italian menu to
find out that they were moscardini. It turns out that the
genus of the dormouse is muscardinus, and that's presumably
how they made that error.
I ordered them and liked them very much. But I like all kinds
and preparations of octopus. Octopus is my favorite kind of
meat.
That's interesting about the "baby octopus" being a different species
and I'm certainly willing to believe it. I've had what appear to be the
same octopus (es?) in a Chinese restaurant. However, the sushi was I
think what is called gunkan (going by memory and open to correction): a
rice base surrounded by a ring of nori and topped with the stewed
octopus. Anyway, the construction is similar to that used for serving
salmon roe.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Ken Blake
2010-06-15 20:48:16 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:14:47 -0400, "James Silverton"
Post by James Silverton
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Nick Cramer
Post by James Silverton
I've had octopus in two ways in sushi places. One is sliced
thin and chewy ,nigiri style and the other involves stewed
baby octopus. The latter is not particularly tough and I
like them both!
Stewed baby octopus sounds good. They eat a lot of octopus in
Sicily, but I don't have any recipes. ;-(
The stewed small octopus (I think it's a small kind, not
really baby octopus) is very common in lots of places in
Italy. They are called "moscardini."
Interestingly, once in a restaurant in Siena, I was given a
menu in English. It had dormice on the menu. I had no idea
what it was, and had to get an look at the Italian menu to
find out that they were moscardini. It turns out that the
genus of the dormouse is muscardinus, and that's presumably
how they made that error.
I ordered them and liked them very much. But I like all kinds
and preparations of octopus. Octopus is my favorite kind of
meat.
That's interesting about the "baby octopus" being a different species
and I'm certainly willing to believe it.
Remember that I'm not sure I'm right. It's just what I think.
Post by James Silverton
I've had what appear to be the
same octopus (es?) in a Chinese restaurant.
The plural is "octopuses" or "octopodes."

I've had them in Italy and in Japanese restaurants in the US. For some
reason I've never understood, octopus is rare in Chinese food.
Post by James Silverton
However, the sushi was I
"Gunkan (battleship) maki is right. It's the way you get ikura and uni
in sushi bars. I've never seen octopus that way, though.
Post by James Silverton
a
rice base surrounded by a ring of nori and topped with the stewed
octopus. Anyway, the construction is similar to that used for serving
salmon roe.
Exactly. That's the ikura I mentioned above.
--
Ken Blake
James Silverton
2010-06-15 21:02:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by James Silverton
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Nick Cramer
Post by James Silverton
I've had octopus in two ways in sushi places. One is
sliced thin and chewy ,nigiri style and the other
involves stewed baby octopus. The latter is not
particularly tough and I like them both!
Stewed baby octopus sounds good. They eat a lot of octopus
in Sicily, but I don't have any recipes. ;-(
The stewed small octopus (I think it's a small kind, not
really baby octopus) is very common in lots of places in
Italy. They are called "moscardini."
Interestingly, once in a restaurant in Siena, I was given a
menu in English. It had dormice on the menu. I had no idea
what it was, and had to get an look at the Italian menu to
find out that they were moscardini. It turns out that the
genus of the dormouse is muscardinus, and that's presumably
how they made that error.
I ordered them and liked them very much. But I like all
kinds and preparations of octopus. Octopus is my favorite
kind of meat.
That's interesting about the "baby octopus" being a different
species and I'm certainly willing to believe it.
Remember that I'm not sure I'm right. It's just what I think.
Post by James Silverton
I've had what appear to be the
same octopus (es?) in a Chinese restaurant.
The plural is "octopuses" or "octopodes."
I've had them in Italy and in Japanese restaurants in the US.
For some reason I've never understood, octopus is rare in
Chinese food.
Post by James Silverton
However, the sushi was I
think what is called gunkan (going by memory and open to
"Gunkan (battleship) maki is right. It's the way you get ikura
and uni in sushi bars. I've never seen octopus that way,
though.
Post by James Silverton
a
rice base surrounded by a ring of nori and topped with the
stewed octopus. Anyway, the construction is similar to that
used for serving salmon roe.
Exactly. That's the ikura I mentioned above.
You'll have to visit Niwano Hana in my neighborhood. They usually manage
to have at least two octopuses on one gunkan.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Ken Blake
2010-06-15 23:51:02 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 17:02:10 -0400, "James Silverton"
Post by James Silverton
Post by Ken Blake
Post by James Silverton
However, the sushi was I
think what is called gunkan (going by memory and open to
"Gunkan (battleship) maki is right. It's the way you get ikura
and uni in sushi bars. I've never seen octopus that way,
though.
Post by James Silverton
a
rice base surrounded by a ring of nori and topped with the
stewed octopus. Anyway, the construction is similar to that
used for serving salmon roe.
Exactly. That's the ikura I mentioned above.
You'll have to visit Niwano Hana in my neighborhood. They usually manage
to have at least two octopuses on one gunkan.
It doesn't sound bad to me. But it is unusual.
--
Ken Blake
James Silverton
2010-06-16 13:39:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by James Silverton
Post by Ken Blake
Post by James Silverton
However, the sushi was I
think what is called gunkan (going by memory and open to
"Gunkan (battleship) maki is right. It's the way you get
ikura and uni in sushi bars. I've never seen octopus that
way, though.
Post by James Silverton
a
rice base surrounded by a ring of nori and topped with the
stewed octopus. Anyway, the construction is similar to
that used for serving salmon roe.
Exactly. That's the ikura I mentioned above.
You'll have to visit Niwano Hana in my neighborhood. They
usually manage to have at least two octopuses on one gunkan.
It doesn't sound bad to me. But it is unusual.
The Niwano Hana is a very well regarded restaurant in Rockvile, MD and
there are often many inventive specials. Mostly they are pretty good and
many, like the baby octopus gunkan, have become staples on the menu.
Their regular octopus nigiri are good too. Sometimes, they can miss out
in my opinion, like their light blue-colored "Marine Roll"!
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Ken Blake
2010-06-16 15:51:13 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:39:38 -0400, "James Silverton"
Post by James Silverton
Post by Ken Blake
Post by James Silverton
Post by Ken Blake
Post by James Silverton
However, the sushi was I
think what is called gunkan (going by memory and open to
"Gunkan (battleship) maki is right. It's the way you get
ikura and uni in sushi bars. I've never seen octopus that
way, though.
Post by James Silverton
a
rice base surrounded by a ring of nori and topped with the
stewed octopus. Anyway, the construction is similar to
that used for serving salmon roe.
Exactly. That's the ikura I mentioned above.
You'll have to visit Niwano Hana in my neighborhood. They
usually manage to have at least two octopuses on one gunkan.
It doesn't sound bad to me. But it is unusual.
The Niwano Hana is a very well regarded restaurant in Rockvile, MD and
there are often many inventive specials. Mostly they are pretty good and
many, like the baby octopus gunkan, have become staples on the menu.
Their regular octopus nigiri are good too. Sometimes, they can miss out
in my opinion, like their light blue-colored "Marine Roll"!
Thanks. I'd like to try it, if I get there some day.
--
Ken Blake
Wilson
2010-06-16 14:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:14:47 -0400, "James Silverton"
Post by James Silverton
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Nick Cramer
Post by James Silverton
I've had octopus in two ways in sushi places. One is sliced
thin and chewy ,nigiri style and the other involves stewed
baby octopus. The latter is not particularly tough and I
like them both!
Stewed baby octopus sounds good. They eat a lot of octopus in
Sicily, but I don't have any recipes. ;-(
The stewed small octopus (I think it's a small kind, not
really baby octopus) is very common in lots of places in
Italy. They are called "moscardini."
Interestingly, once in a restaurant in Siena, I was given a
menu in English. It had dormice on the menu. I had no idea
what it was, and had to get an look at the Italian menu to
find out that they were moscardini. It turns out that the
genus of the dormouse is muscardinus, and that's presumably
how they made that error.
I ordered them and liked them very much. But I like all kinds
and preparations of octopus. Octopus is my favorite kind of
meat.
That's interesting about the "baby octopus" being a different species
and I'm certainly willing to believe it.
Remember that I'm not sure I'm right. It's just what I think.
Post by James Silverton
I've had what appear to be the
same octopus (es?) in a Chinese restaurant.
The plural is "octopuses" or "octopodes."
Why wouldn't that be 'octopi?'
Post by Ken Blake
I've had them in Italy and in Japanese restaurants in the US. For some
reason I've never understood, octopus is rare in Chinese food.
Post by James Silverton
However, the sushi was I
"Gunkan (battleship) maki is right. It's the way you get ikura and uni
in sushi bars. I've never seen octopus that way, though.
Post by James Silverton
a
rice base surrounded by a ring of nori and topped with the stewed
octopus. Anyway, the construction is similar to that used for serving
salmon roe.
Exactly. That's the ikura I mentioned above.
--
Wilson 44.69, -67.3
Ken Blake
2010-06-16 15:51:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wilson
Post by Ken Blake
The plural is "octopuses" or "octopodes."
Why wouldn't that be 'octopi?'
Although many people do say "octopi," it really isn't correct. It
assumes that "octopus" is a second declension masculine Latin noun.
Second declension masculine Latin nouns normally end in "-us" and in
the plural, the "-us" changes to "-i"

However, "octopus" is Greek, not Latin.
--
Ken Blake
Wilson
2010-06-16 17:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Wilson
Post by Ken Blake
The plural is "octopuses" or "octopodes."
Why wouldn't that be 'octopi?'
Although many people do say "octopi," it really isn't correct. It
assumes that "octopus" is a second declension masculine Latin noun.
Second declension masculine Latin nouns normally end in "-us" and in
the plural, the "-us" changes to "-i"
However, "octopus" is Greek, not Latin.
Well, I have to agree that you are correct and you explained it with more
expertise than I am familiar with, sending me to my own dictionary. It still
sounds a bit strange and I guess enough people make the mistake that the
dictionary does include '-pi' as a second acceptable plural form.

All that being said, I've never cooked it myself, but did see a segment on
TV once showing octopuses being cooked rapidly in a boiling pot and, IIRC,
they cooked it for some time which is contrary to my experience cooking most
seafood. Thanks
--
Wilson 44.69, -67.3
James Silverton
2010-06-16 20:03:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wilson
Post by Ken Blake
On 06/15/10 4:48 PM, sometime in the recent past Ken Blake
Post by Ken Blake
The plural is "octopuses" or "octopodes."
Why wouldn't that be 'octopi?'
Although many people do say "octopi," it really isn't
correct. It assumes that "octopus" is a second declension
masculine Latin noun. Second declension masculine Latin nouns
normally end in "-us" and in the plural, the "-us" changes to
"-i"
However, "octopus" is Greek, not Latin.
Well, I have to agree that you are correct and you explained
it with more expertise than I am familiar with, sending me to my own
dictionary. It still sounds a bit strange and I guess
enough people make the mistake that the dictionary does
include '-pi' as a second acceptable plural form.
All that being said, I've never cooked it myself, but did see a
segment on TV once showing octopuses being cooked rapidly in
a boiling pot and, IIRC, they cooked it for some time which is
contrary to my experience cooking most seafood. Thanks
The online Oxford English Dictioary has Plural octopuses, octopi, (rare)
octopodes. Thus they prefer octopuses, which is what I would say
instinctively even if I had doubts when I wrote it down ;-)
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
mirror
2010-06-16 21:33:06 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:48:16 -0700, Ken Blake
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:14:47 -0400, "James Silverton"
"Gunkan (battleship) maki is right. It's the way you get ikura and uni
in sushi bars. I've never seen octopus that way, though.
You might get it as an octopus's gunkan in the sea.

Ken Blake
2010-06-15 04:11:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:14:31 -0700 (PDT), parrotheada1a
Post by parrotheada1a
Thing is, octopus is a kinda tough meat,
Not always. That depends entirely on how it's prepared.
Post by parrotheada1a
tougher than lobster ...
Yes, lobster isn't tough at all, and octopus is almost always at least
a little tougher.
Post by parrotheada1a
... or abalone.
But I don't agree with that at all. At least in my experience, abalone
is almost always much tougher than octopus.
--
Ken Blake
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